Smarter Business Podcast - Business Advice with a Video Bent

Aly Luccari - Bright Organizing - Virtual Organizing and Being Comfortable on Camera - Episode 22

September 01, 2020 Aly Luccari Season 1 Episode 22
Smarter Business Podcast - Business Advice with a Video Bent
Aly Luccari - Bright Organizing - Virtual Organizing and Being Comfortable on Camera - Episode 22
Show Notes Transcript

Be sure to subscribe to receive future episodes -

In this episode of the Smarter Business Podcast, Neil interviews Aly Luccari, owner of Bright Organizing Solutions. Aly talks about how her business got started, how Covid-19 has affected her company and being comfortable on camera.
Here is a link to Aly's site - 

And a link to the vidwheel Creator Network -

If you like what you hear, please subscribe wherever you are taking in this podcast, and please leave a comment - we are always looking for feedback and it can help people find the show.

Our goal with this podcast to deliver high-quality, actionable tips and advice from business leaders. Advice that will help you succeed. Oh yeah and that video bent - we are going beyond the typical business tips, we are going to explore the use of video with these business leaders too, from marketing to sales, to internal communications - how they use it and how it impacts their businesses. Thanks for tuning in. 

COMMENT BELOW if you have any questions about video marketing. We'd love to hear from you :) 



Facebook -

LinkedIn -

Instagram - 


Are you looking to generate more leads? Or maybe better leads?

Could your sales team use some modern help demonstrating your product, developing relationships, and closing deals?

Would you like to efficiently recruit and train top talent?

Or perhaps you’d like to show the world who you really are, reinforce your culture, and expand your brand?

Video can do that. And we can help.

vidwheel LLC is an agile video agency that fully partners with our clients to plan, execute, and effectively implement high-quality video to help elevate multiple aspects of their businesses.

Some companies help with strategy and planning. Some companies produce video. Some companies help distribute video for outreach purposes. We do all three, we do it well, and we do it at a price point that makes sense.

- Welcome to this episode of the Smarter Business Podcast. I'm Neil Carroll, owner of vidwheel. And what we try to do on this podcast is talk to business owners about a little bit of business advice, usually with a video vent. So today we're gonna talk to Aly Luccari of Bright Organizing. Aly, it's great to have you.

- Thank you Neil.

- And now I'm gonna let Aly go ahead and intro herself. Aly, why don't you just tell us about yourself? Tell us a little bit about Bright Organizing.

- Yeah. Well, Bright Organizing has its 15th anniversary the end of August, and since it's 2020, as for that year and just in case this becomes viral and lasts over a year. So professional organizer literally started the day, Katrina had wanted to help people clear the clutter in their space. When I moved to Buffalo, I started focusing on businesses and that was really fun and exciting new area of the dabble and really helped people increase their productivity without increasing stress and angst, and clearing clutter and mental clutter as well.

- Excellent. And you mentioned Katrina. I know this is part of like your business story, so we'll go back and clarify. At the moment when you started, Buffalo didn't have, wasn't really hit very badly by Katrina. So where were you operating from that kind of, yeah, I guess that becomes a more relevant detail.

- Good point, thank you. I was living in Louisiana, 45 minutes North of New Orleans, and so when it hit, I actually spent my first day in business at my mom's condo in West Palm Beach, Florida, not quite how I envisioned it. But came back and within less than six months, things were rocking and rolling in regard to the home organizing aspect.

- So I've got two follow up questions on that. So you were evacuated your first day of business, correct?

- Yes.

- Okay, all right.

- Yes.

- And then the other is, do you think that people cleaning up from that storm had a positive impact on how quickly you were able to get up and running?

- Absolutely. It was like the trifecta. HGTV was doing a lot of professional organizing shows. There was, since I was far enough North from where Katrina actually hit, well technically West of where it hit, I wasn't impacted as significantly as people that bore the brunt of it. And it was very much people hunkering down and realizing that they needed to get their shit together in their house, and it really raised the priority of having things together and beading to find important documents and such. 'Cause there was a lot of repair that needed to be done and such even though. Yeah, it was just, there was so much going on that people were reaching out to professionals for help. Yeah, and that's, it's an unfortunate situation to get that start in. But so often, we both have done, I've heard this number of times through the UBCEL program, which we both have some involvement in, where yeah crisis, I don't know, accelerates the way a lot of people looked at certain areas and so on of their life, or it can be an opportunity for some businesses while it's obviously the opposite for others.

- Exactly. And that lends to balance in the work environment when you're looking at being able to provide a service that other companies can't. And then, so it gave me the ability to support my local community, because I was fortunate enough to carry and grow my business crazy organically with... And the bad thing is I didn't have to do marketing, so here's a good segue for us to deal. Now when I moved to Buffalo, now nobody knows me. No one knew me in Louisiana either, but they needed me. So now that I'm here in Buffalo for several years and now it's time they get the marketing out. And that's where video, when I first started thinking it, I was like, "Ah, video video, who video? Oh, Neil Carrol, that's my resource.

- Well, and we can, yeah we're clearly gonna dive into that. We get a couple of sections dedicated to the Creator Network which we're gonna touch on. Maybe we'll talk about that first video we did together years ago. But to keep us on track, I'm gonna bring us back to another piece of the intro that I have here. Is if you have to boil down what you do or what your business does into one sentence, what would it be?

- I walk clients through the process of clearing out the clutter, so then they can maintain the system. It's easy, it's doable, I try and add as much fun to it as possible. And the maintenance should be very natural.

- Excellent. And the next place I wanna go here before we get into all the Creator Network video stuff is, you started in a crisis or a time of crisis. We're in a different time of crisis right now with the coronavirus pandemic. That's really impacted, I would have to guess just about every business. There are certain businesses again that are thriving because of it and there's other ones that are gone because of it. So in the organizing world, what has changed in this last say six months?

- Definitely going virtual has changed. And I used to think, oh, I have to be in the environment and feel the energy of the person and touch all the staff to really be the best organizer that I can be. And I found that there's almost a complete opposite result. So it's unintended consequences have been phenomenal and positive. And it's much more empowering. I always focused on empowering the client, but when I'm the one opening the box and handling all the things, I'm almost taking the power away from the client, 'cause it's the client's box. And so by doing virtual, now I'm going, so what's in that box there, and it's actually the client who's opening it up and handling their stuff. And I'm able to walk them through making decisions about what to do with the clutter. And you had mentioned in a previous conversation that we've had together, that you actually get a little bit of a better look at the client versus just the stuff, right? When you're facing the box versus watching your client do it and seeing the reaction on their face or the, whatever kind of emotions they're displaying.

- Exactly. And what's really strange too is since we've had that conversation, I'm realizing even more that the clutter for me, the client's clutter completely falls away and so all my energy is on them and it's just such a rewarding, unexpected result of doing virtual organizing. So do you feel like maybe you're doing a little more people coaching versus the actual nuts and bolts of the organizing at this point?

- Exactly, exactly, talking to them much more about their mindset. When I hear someone say something negative so a young lady refers to her, she calls me the slob whisper. I'm like, I'm not the slob whisper. I'm the clutter whisper because slob is not some, that's not a positive term to use about anyone, especially yourself.

- Sure.

- So she's the conduit to the clutter, say, clutter whisper not slob, I'm not talking to you, we're talking to your cluter.

- Yeah, okay. All right, yeah well. That's a positive mindset I know is a thing that I think in previous conversations we've seen before. I know that's a big part of what you do. And it's a tougher thing to get to keep going right now compared to maybe some other times and people .

- Absolutely. Absolutely, but if you start letting go of the negative talk, just like you start letting go of the clutter, you can change. You can let go of the negative talk and have something to replace it with and you can let go of the clutter and not necessarily have something to replace it with.

- Excellent, yes. Empty space, negative space, that's what .

- Right. Negative space good, negative talk bad.

- Yes, there we go. All right, put that on your business card.

- Wait, wait, wait, is this the recording?

- All right, so here's the other side of the coin? What has stayed the same in terms of the organizing game?

- The negative talk has stayed the same. The beating up of ourselves, and I like to say I'm too lazy to do this and too lazy to do that. And negative energy just, I think it might be easier now because we're so much more exposed to social media and things along that line. And if you enjoy negative talk, leave that for the talking heads on the TV, not talking heads at vidwheel, vidwheel's no negative energy. Leave that for people get paid to do it. Don't do it to yourself, don't do it to others and that hasn't changed at all.

- So then, before when you were face-to-face, you would have a lot of the same sage wisdom about being positive and having that outlook on whatever cluttered situation that people were having.

- Right, and doing it face-to-face, it was almost like people would say something, I'd be like, "Oh, well, let's do this." And I wouldn't focus on it. But now since it's video and it's so much more focused, I realize that it's continuing and the importance of replacing it with something else. So obviously you're not gonna stop overnight.

- Sure.

- I'm going to assume that we all have that challenge, those thoughts slip in and it's like, okay, it's there, now let's let it go.

- Excellent. Well, it sounds like there is a good path forward for the business you're in, which is awesome, that's important these days. And I guess the next thing in our notes that we look we're looking at is do you have any challenges that you are experiencing maybe due to the switch in business model or mindset?

- Oh, that's so funny. My challenge is not going to someone physically because it's something that I, I did it for almost 15 years. So telling someone that I'm gonna show up for them but it's gonna be over video has been a challenge for me. But people are receptive. Once I talk to them about how it's gonna work and the advantages and how we can overcome the disadvantages, then they're like, yeah, 'cause it's a completely different experience. So yeah, I would say that's my biggest challenge, is committing to the virtual.

- Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's hard to do and New York State has opened up quite a bit. I'm sure you could be working in people's homes again at this point with the rates being low and so on around here. But you're sticking on the virtual path, right?

- Right.

- That's a, as we've talked about, it gives you a lot more a bigger playing field. You can service people all over the world, you don't have to be as geographically restricted, so.

- Right, yeah, the travel time is a huge thing.

- That's a good point. Yeah, great point. Okay, well. Oh, you had a story you were gonna tell. Does that fit anywhere in our notes or you just wanna go for it?

- That comes later.

- Okay, all right, good.

- We got it later.

- We're going to leave the story for later, and we're gonna take a very, very clumsy segue over to how we have been able to help you a little bit with this virtual organizing transition which is gonna be talking a bit about the vidwheel Creator Network. So this month's theme is all about being comfortable on camera. So we've got programming and so on on the Creator Network that's gonna help folks get over that fear of getting in front of the camera. Are you comfortable in front of the camera?

- I'm ridiculously comfortable in front of the camera 'cause I think all we have is ourselves. This is it, this is as good as it's gonna get. There's nothing I can do that's gonna make it any better aside from move my head, the black, the door knob and the light switch. And if the door knob and the light switch are my biggest concerns, I'm totally in a good place. So I've gotten myself and this is where the story comes in Neil.

- Oh, okay, wow. Go for it.

- So how I got here was I signed up to do a webinar for the National Association of Women Business Owners, NABO. And yeah, this is my big opportunity to make my services known to thousands of women. And the young lady who was in charge of it wanted a bio. And I'm assuming like many of us, we struggle with our bio. And so to help me, she sent me a sample bio and I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna be a big girl, I'm just gonna take this sample and I'm just going to go line by line, and I'm gonna make it about me. I'm gonna follow what this other young lady did, and how bad can it be?" So I open up this young lady's biographical paragraph. So it was probably your classic five paragraph essay, and it starts with that she was a first generation immigrant. So I was like, okay, well I'm probably a 15th generation immigrant, so I'm like, Aly Luccari, 15th generation immigrants. That she was divorced with two kids and I'm like, I'm divorced. First time I ever said or thought that. And she had two children and I was like, I only have one adult son who's no longer dependent on me. And she was like hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. I'm like, dang, I only have $10,000 in debt. So I stuck it out and I mimicked hers, and I wrote mine. It was the first time, I was really disappointed at all my failures. So it's like if you can take yourself to that extreme and just as a way of being authentic, and then dial it back and be like, okay, that's my true outrageousness. And then maybe dial it back and that's where our true authenticity is. By doing that, putting myself through the torturous process of comparing myself to this young lady who of course, sold a business that she started three years prior to Bill Gates for like $10 million. I was like, I give away three cord organizers. I got that.

- Awesome, yup.

- So, obviously adding humor to things and being like, so then. So once you get past that hurdle, I feel like that's why I was like effort. This is me and I'm donna be authentic and if I resonate with you, awesome.

- Yeah, and that's, I mean, you've actually hit on a couple of things there.

- So I'm gonna go to your last thing first. That is a discussion I've had with clients since way before COVID. Using authenticity and video is a great way to, I don't know, you're introducing yourself to a lot of people. So whether they like you or they don't, either way you're one step ahead with that group of people. So you don't have to be worried about them not liking you. That's a positive if you've weeded out people that you're not gonna work well with.

- Awesome point, awesome.

- Because I came to a point with my own business years ago where I did some financial analysis year over year and this is when I was a solopreneur, so these numbers are probably a smaller than with some businesses. But I broke down how much an ideal client would be worth to me in a year, how much I wanted to raise my revenue and how many new clients that would require. And the number at the time was four. Four, so when you start like worrying about, oh, I don't know, am I gonna say something that this person doesn't like or is this person not gonna like me when I go in this direction? It doesn't matter for people to say that's the person.

- Right, that's my guy.

- Yeah, and four is probably not the number for a lot of people but if that number is 30, if that number is 100 and you're talking to a national stage, like yeah, not every needs to like you

- Yeah, it's all relative. Mm-hmm, right. And then there was little things like one of the videos that I did, I did my bun a little higher, so you could see it and I was like, "Oh my gosh, that looks terrible. Who can look at me when my bun's higher than it's supposed to be. But when you're authentic and your content is there, no one cares. that your bun is popping in.

- No body cares about the bun. And if they do, that's probably not an ideal customer for you, right?

- Right.

- Let another organizer deal with the person who's so worried about the bun height or whatever term you use .

- Whatever is fine.

- Well, and then I'm gonna come back to the beginning of that, where I asked you if you were comfortable on camera. So have you always been comfortable on camera or it was that moment that you did the bio and you were just like, you know what, this is me, take it or leave it kind of thing.

- I think fear of judgment for who I am as a person was let go then.

- Okay.

- Fear of judgment of how I looked was literally let go of when we did the video, where I'm wearing the Buffalo Bill's hoodie and it's the beginning of the whole lockdown and I was like, "We can be recording this." I don't think I did hair and makeup, I don't know.

- And then we hopped on and I was like, "Aly, we're gonna record this. And we had that great segment with the comforter in the living room, right?

- Right, right. And blessing and curse, I had good lighting because I was in the dining room. But then longterm dining room's not a realistic place for me to hang out.

- Sure.

- And then I transitioned here, struggled with my lighting and you obviously got me hooked up with the ring light, and I'm not sure when I added the camera. I think I did the ring light after the camera. I don't remember.

- I think so. I think you had a ring light on the webcam call. We added that 920 camera, and then we added another ring light, right?

- Yes, yes. And then we added the microphone.

- And then we added the microphone.

- So by adding those things gave me the confidence to go, okay, like I said earlier, this is as good as it's gonna get. Neil's done all the magic he can. I used a study of hand possible to do my lip liners. That's not getting any, that is more that . Though my eyeliner came out thicker than I wanted today, but who's really, God who cares? If that's my biggest issue, Right. Yeah, that's good, that's great info. An incremental way to get to the most confident place that you could be for these types of your video calls and those types of things.

- All right, and I would hope those thoughts can also be applicable to gentleman 'cause I don't wanna be gender specific here, but we all have our quandaries and our, how does this look, and how do I look? And I think it's all relative, whether you're male or female.

- Right. Well, and just I guess for reference, I always tell people when I'm on calls talking about the Creator Network or anything, I'm on the kit that we roll out to most of our members of the Creator Network, which you're close to minus the camera I think. But I have more expensive cameras sitting next to me on the desk, but as a way to showcase what we've put together for people. And I think the product is pretty good. The audio and the lighting and the sharpness of the lens and usually when I have that conversation with people in a meeting, they're excited to hear about it, excited about the possibilities.

- Right, and it's the same thing applies to organizing. You can organize for forever, and I've seen clients where they'll use organizing as an excuse, not to get stuff done. And we can continually upgrade our microphone and our cameras and our lighting, but there's a point where the benefit of it is minimal and no longer cost effective, and that's why you're my guy.

- So yeah, and that's the mentality across, that's really been the mentality through the business for the most part but it's really at the forefront right now. So it's always been through vidwheel and before we were vidwheel when were Nickel City Graphics, we would always be super light production. Low number of people, minimal gear, trying to make it work because you can get here and it's that last little bit that makes a video cost 10, 20, 30 times as much. It's a crazy amount to get over the hump there. So this system set up in the same way, where it's got a higher quality camera, but it's affordable, it works well for the home office set up and so on. The setup is as simple as we could get it to get the same kind of video quality and so on. But yeah, you want to go, you wanna take incremental steps higher, the price tag just starts going through the roof. So it's a balance. It's always a balance there.

- And that goes to being comfortable, 'cause if you have this phenomenal setup with the fancy photographer lights that you see I'm lagging around in the fancy camera and you're anxious about, oh my gosh, I just invested all this money now I need to recoup it, so this video needs to be spot on, then that takes away from your authenticity.

- Yeah, that's a good point.

- Potentially.

- That's a good point. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it from that end. You have a lot less nerves about the cash invested, right? Which we actually, we try to go one step further with that in the network too, where we just include the kit with the monthly cost. We just send it out to people and if folks find it's not a fit for them, they can just send it back kind of thing.

- Right, I saw when you rolled that out. I was like, oh man, I can't get the kit 'cause I already have what I need. But like-

- You already got half of the stuff.

- Oh, wait, I already got that from Neil. I'm okay.

- Yeah, so and that's meant to make that barrier to entry super simple. And super low risk. If people don't find the value in it, they can send it back. If they keep the kit long enough, the kit becomes theirs as well, so.

- Yeah, I think that was a phenomenal thing that you did there Neil. I really liked it

- Well yeah, we'll see what the masses think. We're still kind of, we're just starting, this is gonna be the first podcast of month two of the Creator Network. And yeah, we'll see where it goes.

- But it's that authenticity, that organic growth that we want.

- Yeah, yeah we don't- A flood of people would be a less probably helpful way to grow this. A slow burn to build up the number of folks. Everybody's comfortable with each other, supporting each other, helping each other with everything from-

- Feedback on videos.

- Yeah, I was gonna say, critique some videos to strategy and ideas and just general you-can-do-it type comments or are all part of the game there, so.

- Right. And what I take away, I mean, I love it. And what I feel like I'm a fly on the wall in a room filled with people who are just so smart in regard to this whole video thing and picking up itty bitty tips that I never would have there. I'm getting questions answered that I never knew I even had questions for and different perspectives and it's .

- Yeah, it's one of those things where we, I've been pushing people to get those first videos out and where like a lot of folks at the base level just starting to get some stuff out, but it is a deep, deep pool. Well, it's like we talked about with gear and stuff. You can make incremental changes to make your video better and better and better and you almost never have to stop with... You could always just continue to down that path if you wanted to, if you had the hunger to learn more and continue to evolve in that way.

- Exactly. And I realized not long into this process that I don't want my first couple of videos to be as good as my last couple of videos.

- There won't be.

- Okay. Room for growth.

- Yeah, well, that was part of the reason why I pushed out in August, the first videos as the theme. And we had some people share some older videos. I shared one of my older videos. I wasn't able to track down a video I made as a kid that I really wanted to. Maybe somewhere down the line. But you can see a ton of growth within anybody. We have a few folks who've made out a lot of video content on the network, and you can see a ton of growth. I know if I look at my own YouTube channel and stuff that we've put out for other clients and so on, we put out better stuff now than we did a few years ago, that type of thing, right.

- Right, and I think that goes towards figuring out how to be comfortable and taking off that expectation of nailing it, giving yourself a 99% on the perfection scale of videos.

- You know what, that's an excellent point. You have that little formula. Do you wanna walk through the... Do you know the one I'm talking about, you have like the, you asked me what grade I was happy with in like high school and then, yeah.

- Right, and yeah, it's not a formula, it's some number that... So I choose like 90%, if I 90% something, I'm going to assume that my client, my customer, my viewer, is going to think it's 100%. And I think I said this before, the cheesecake factory, their passing grade is 85%. And I talked to one client and I, oh wait, it wasn't a client. Was it you?

- Mm-hmm, maybe.

- Someone said they were happy with 70. And I was like, "You know what, you pick your number and then you roll with it." So if your number is 80, then when your video is at 80%, roll it out. No more excuses.

- Ship it.

- Yes, absolutely.

- That may have been a conversation. 'Cause you phrased it to me, what was a passing grade in high school? And I think I said, well, I think it was 65% or something. That might be aiming a little low for the formula, but yeah, essentially I found it to be an interesting thing because it also encapsulates how perfectionist a person is. So even if you're a perfectionist and you would have been happy with the 95, you can still ship it at 95. Now the people who aren't happy unless they have 100, it doesn't work for them. But-

- Right, my dissertation for them is there's no such thing as 100. Because the more you improve, the more you want to improve, and whether you're organizing or producing videos, you're going to keep getting better. Like you promised me, I would keep getting better.

- Oh yes, yeah. In the Creator Network, everybody gets better.

- Right, there's no backsliding,

- No backsliding, all forward motion. All right, so I'm gonna get us back on track here. We're running towards the end of our time. So there's one question we ask everybody on the smarter business podcast that ties them all together, and this doesn't have to be video related or anything like that. But what is one thing you have done to make your business or a client's business smarter?

- You know it's so funny, I'm cheating and I'm looking at my-

- You want me to read off your notes?

- Is that bad?

- No. Go for it.

- And so, I'm playing with two ideas and this one is always totally applicable right now that I can't really screw anything up. What can we really screw up, if we're not hurting people and hurting ourselves and putting negative stuff out there, then just going out there and following your passion which goes back to the organic growth and we talked about, everything's gonna be fine. And then the other challenge, and you and I had this as a conversation previously as well, is how far can I push myself as an organizer? How much can I really give? So I started my first client on an unlimited package, meaning I am available to her during a 12-hour period. I did start out six days a week, I mean seven days a week, I might bump that down to six, but they're just conversations with her and it's such a high for me and it's so motivating. And it doesn't phase me unless I'm having technical difficulties. I too pick up the phone and have a 10-minute conversation with her to keep her on her journey. Because when I'm working with someone face-to-face and I'm limited to my three or four-hour block with them, because I've got to get to my next client, and who knows what travel time, how far can I push people, push myself and keep people motivated and engaged and really accomplish their goals much faster than if I wasn't doing this virtual thing. So yeah.

- Thanks.

- One, you can't screw anything up and two, how far can I literally I'm like an athlete?

- Yeah. Well, and yeah, you and I had that conversation about the unlimited. We went in on the creator network actually made the consulting aspect unlimited based on our conversation and based on what we've been talking about through this podcast. If you're attracting the right people, then that unlimited aspect is going to just energize you. Like you're saying, you're helping people who really maybe appreciate the consulting aspect, appreciate your opinion. And there may be limits to it down the line. If you have all these people doing unlimited, then you have to change something in it, but until then just serve your clients as best you can in this moment and worry about some of the details later. So it's the ultimate in surface mentality there.

- And it's one that feels authentic to me 'cause you hear it and you think, okay, I give as much as I can when I'm with them face-to-face and now to open it up is... And so the changes that I'm like, I'll just hire someone to do my cooking and my cleaning.

- Right, well, there you go. Yeah, you can always replace the other aspects of your life that don't energize you with hiring somebody who it does energize, right?

- Right.

- Not everybody ends up being happier.

- Exactly, exactly.

- Well, that is excellent. I'm looking at your notes. You may have hit on your open-ended things. I think the unlimited thing is a Smarter Business, is a great tip for the Smarter Business. But if you have any last notes, I'm happy to hear them. We always, I end every interview I do, whether it's a testimonial or the podcast here, with an open-ended, did we leave anything out?

- Did we leave anything out? Well, we talked about negative talk, we about clearing space, we talked about my love/obsession for the Creator Network. I love how you opened that up early, so then I can... 'Cause I like the jump on my videos well in advance and get camera angle.

- Right, get comfortable. Right, yeah.

- And get exactly, get comfortable with everything. And that way, IRL. I like to show up to my clients a few minutes early. Doesn't work so well in Louisiana. They're like, you said 11:00, you're supposed to be here at 11:15, not 10:50.

- Right, right, not on the Northern scheduling necessarily.

- Right, yeah I think we covered a lot. I can't wait to watch this 'cause that's the other advantage of video, is you capture all those golden nuggets that are unplanned and yeah, I'll go on forever.

- Yeah, I think we've got great stuff here. I appreciate you taking the time. I appreciate you contributing so much in the Creator Network. You can feel free to share some of those videos I've seen going up on LinkedIn and the show off channel if you want. But yeah, I invite anybody who feels like some of the stuff Aly and I have been talking about to come to over to the Creator Network and check it out. We do have free meetings and so on where people can just pop in and get an idea of what we have going on there. Feel free to reach out to me to do that. Anybody who likes the content that we've been pushing out here, feel free to subscribe and share these podcasts. And Aly, as I always say at the end of these now, this would be the time where we would shake hands in studio, but we'll just settle for this right now. All right.

- Bye Neil, thank you.

- Thanks. Bye, bye.